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Please Fix the Royal Fire Apple

10 Oct 2019, 7:20 am
So I really think we should address this.
There are many items, most recently this one, that are 'very powerful' but basically unobtainable and even in the slightest chance that one does obtain one, it's useless to literally everyone as something other than a space waster.

I know several people have been waiting for this item, to see how good it is, to get one!
But it's added and useless.

Just. Please does anyone else also think that it should be lowered to a usable level? like level 20? and have it's stats nerfed to something so it can be usable?

We as players aren't even supposed to be able to reach level 25. So why is this item added and scaled to a level we aren't supposed to get to?

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Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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10 Oct 2019, 7:28 am (Edited 16 Oct 2019, 3:31 am)
I'll update this section as I go along and find more items.

Other Items that have this problem:
(click the image to go to the museum page)

UPDATE! Ana's Sorrow and the Crown of Battle have had their stats updated and are now useable!
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
WiwPM2N.gif
10 Oct 2019, 10:31 am
Support! I don't see why we have items that aren't even supposed to be used at all.

Not entirely related, but I figure I may as well put it somewhere:
When I played a lot, my one goal in this game was to get to level 25, to be able to use all the items (mainly Ana's Sorrow) because I assumed it was possible to do so. Why have powerful equipment at that level if you couldn't reach it eventually? I'd been a bit annoyed at some things in furvilla then, but getting to level 24 was what drove me out of the site entirely. The one goal I had in the site, that I'd spent months trying to reach, was not only unreachable, but intended to be unreachable. There was no indication that getting to level 25 was impossible, no way to find that out other than asking admins or getting to level 24 and seeing for yourself. I've had my issues with this site, but this is the one thing that gets at me. I still log on occasionally and use the discord a lot, but I don't think I'll ever be as involved in this site as I was back then.
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10 Oct 2019, 2:17 pm
lemmie give this a lil boop
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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10 Oct 2019, 2:20 pm
I wouldn't really like to see it nerfed because it would mess up the idea of it being powerful in the first place. I also don't think it should be easy to obtain because as of right now, it's stronger than one of the strongest legendaries (even with some nerfs it would still be comparable). I honestly don't know how they should fix this.
I was sorta hoping that the royal fox would drop it instead of the harbinger, like in some event or bg later on. It feels odd that it drops from harbinger, since it's such an old battleground and because it doesn't really relate to the item.

If anyone wants to compare how strong this apple is:
Royal Fire Apple
Qurious Blade
10 Oct 2019, 2:22 pm
Arbi said:
I wouldn't really like to see it nerfed because it would mess up the idea of it being powerful in the first place. I also don't think it should be easy to obtain because as of right now, it's stronger than one of the strongest legendaries (even with some nerfs it would still be comparable). I honestly don't know how they should fix this.
I was sorta hoping that the royal fox would drop it instead of the harbinger, like in some event or bg later on. It feels odd that it drops from harbinger, since it's such an old battleground and because it doesn't really relate to the item.

If anyone wants to compare how strong this apple is:
Royal Fire Apple
Qurious Blade


I understand not wanting it to be nerfed but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get to level 25 so it either gets nerfed to less than level 25 and lower stats accordingly or it stays impossible to use anyway so it doesn't matter what the stats are.
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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10 Oct 2019, 2:26 pm
Is it literally impossible to get to level 25 or does it take a very long time? Either way I am in support of fixing it. It's just ridiculous.
10 Oct 2019, 2:29 pm
I would like to see all weapons brought down to level 21 and under. At this point how many players even have warriors that are level 22 or higher? A handful!
10 Oct 2019, 2:35 pm
I understand not wanting it to be nerfed but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get to level 25 so it either gets nerfed to less than level 25 and lower stats accordingly or it stays impossible to use anyway so it doesn't matter what the stats are.

People also actually like farming harbinger now (for Mythic Orbs), so farming it wouldn't be a hassle since players are farming it for something else already. Maybe they should just turn it into a keepsake and make a similar royal fox/apple related weapon later on when the level cap is increased.

It would be a pretty awesome keepsake. We never get actual rare keepsakes now adays since they're usually just obtainable by everyone easily.
10 Oct 2019, 6:45 pm
Arbi said:
I understand not wanting it to be nerfed but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get to level 25 so it either gets nerfed to less than level 25 and lower stats accordingly or it stays impossible to use anyway so it doesn't matter what the stats are.

People also actually like farming harbinger now (for Mythic Orbs), so farming it wouldn't be a hassle since players are farming it for something else already. Maybe they should just turn it into a keepsake and make a similar royal fox/apple related weapon later on when the level cap is increased.

It would be a pretty awesome keepsake. We never get actual rare keepsakes now adays since they're usually just obtainable by everyone easily.


That is still basically nerfing it though. Just nerfing it into being a keepsake and not a weapon. If it were turned into a keepsake I would still want it to be something found decently often too. not a .0001% chance of being dropped from something only a hand full of people can reliably beat.
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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10 Oct 2019, 6:48 pm
Is it literally impossible to get to level 25 or does it take a very long time? Either way I am in support of fixing it. It's just ridiculous.


I'm gonna be real with you, I'm not 100% sure it's impossible, however I do know that Wisteria has told people to not try to get to level 25. My highest warrior is only level 21 and this is the progression of level 21 to 22. from hitting level 21 you need 2 million exp to get to level 22. I'm not sure how much it is to get from 22 to 23 and from 23 to 24, but i imagine that it can be programmed to be whatever ridiculous number.
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Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
WiwPM2N.gif
10 Oct 2019, 6:56 pm
It takes 3 mil exp to get from 22 to 23 and 4 mil exp to get from 23 to 24, no idea how much exp for 24 to 25 but based on crunchypuff's post I'm assuming it's somehow exponentially higher and not 5 mil exp? /shrug
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10 Oct 2019, 6:58 pm
It takes 3 mil exp to get from 22 to 23 and 4 mil exp to get from 23 to 24, no idea how much exp for 24 to 25 but based on crunchypuff's post I'm assuming it's somehow exponentially higher and not 5 mil exp? /shrug


Bless you, you amazing person! Thank you for this information! <3
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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10 Oct 2019, 7:03 pm
From what I understand it takes 90 million experience to go from 24 to 25
37y2b2f.gifFor all things warrior related Check out Dueling Club!37y2b2f.gif
10 Oct 2019, 8:00 pm
That is still basically nerfing it though. Just nerfing it into being a keepsake and not a weapon. If it were turned into a keepsake I would still want it to be something found decently often too. not a .0001% chance of being dropped from something only a hand full of people can reliably beat.

Who's still having trouble with harbinger? That monster was nerfed to the ground recently. I would understand if it was pre-nerf harbinger while it had vortex (an ability it had that could hit for over 6k that couldn't be dodged) but now there's many builds now that can beat him easily.
10 Oct 2019, 8:08 pm
So I really think we should address this.
There are many items, most recently this one, that are 'very powerful' but basically unobtainable and even in the slightest chance that one does obtain one, it's useless to literally everyone as something other than a space waster.

I know several people have been waiting for this item, to see how good it is, to get one!
But it's added and useless.

Just. Please does anyone else also think that it should be lowered to a usable level? like level 20? and have it's stats nerfed to something so it can be usable?

We as players aren't even supposed to be able to reach level 25. So why is this item added and scaled to a level we aren't supposed to get to?

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Finally, someone said what we've been thinking.

Furvilla staff, we are tired of "joke items" like this. It doesn't even take skill to get, if the drop rate is that low it's basically the same as playing the lottery...honestly I'll take the lottery instead.

This is honestly a waste of site resources. Someone had to make the art, input its data and write the item details, as well as adding it into the actual loot table, etc. Why would you go to that much work (and *cost*) to make an item that honestly may never come into existence? At least there are 2 or 3 Light Staffs on site so those are worth existing but....this just seems like something added to tease the playerbase.

Please use your resources to make things that the players want, and can attain by putting work into playing, not a gacha/lottery. Please. These items are not fun, they are not clever, and honestly? They're kind of insulting.
10 Oct 2019, 8:53 pm
Arbi said:
That is still basically nerfing it though. Just nerfing it into being a keepsake and not a weapon. If it were turned into a keepsake I would still want it to be something found decently often too. not a .0001% chance of being dropped from something only a hand full of people can reliably beat.

Who's still having trouble with harbinger? That monster was nerfed to the ground recently. I would understand if it was pre-nerf harbinger while it had vortex (an ability it had that could hit for over 6k that couldn't be dodged) but now there's many builds now that can beat him easily.


I'm still having trouble with it, and I imagine that many other people are as well, however that's not what the thread is discussing. The thread is about fixing the items in a way that they are meaningful additions to the site rather than useless goals. The current description of how often the item drops, as per Wisteria's change log update is "It drops from the Harbinger pretty much never" I'd hope that if it's set to 'basically never' as a level 25 weapon, that if it is turned into a keepsake and has zero functionality as a weapon it would also get a better drop rate than "Basically Never"

This is honestly a waste of site resources. Someone had to make the art, input its data and write the item details, as well as adding it into the actual loot table, etc. Why would you go to that much work (and *cost*) to make an item that honestly may never come into existence?


This, so very much this. The time and effort that goes into making items is not nothing. It is baffling why the effort to give an item stats would be made, the effort to add it to the loot table, to give it an impossible to reach level for use, when it then also has a poop drop rate and again, a level that's meant to be impossible to reach.

I do not see why it is worth all that effort and money to add items to the site that are functionally useless in the extremely unlikely and off chance that you do manage to get one.
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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10 Oct 2019, 9:15 pm
I'm still having trouble with it, and I imagine that many other people are as well, however that's not what the thread is discussing. The thread is about fixing the items in a way that they are meaningful additions to the site rather than useless goals. The current description of how often the item drops, as per Wisteria's change log update is "It drops from the Harbinger pretty much never" I'd hope that if it's set to 'basically never' as a level 25 weapon, that if it is turned into a keepsake and has zero functionality as a weapon it would also get a better drop rate than "Basically Never"

But why? Why does this specific item need to be changed so badly? Like, I'm just having trouble understanding why this is a big deal. How does this affect player's ability to use warrior so much that it needs to become accessible? I know that effort was put into making this item but not anymore than most other warrior items on the site, which are in the hundreds.

A few joke items isn't a big deal...and if they do end up nerfing the apple so much that it can become a common drop, than what? It's just a bad weapon then. There's already plenty of bad weapons on the site that have no use.

Let's say they did lower the level requirement to 20. What would the new stats/damage be?
11 Oct 2019, 1:15 am
Arbi said:
But why? Why does this specific item need to be changed so badly? Like, I'm just having trouble understanding why this is a big deal. How does this affect player's ability to use warrior so much that it needs to become accessible? I know that effort was put into making this item but not anymore than most other warrior items on the site, which are in the hundreds.

A few joke items isn't a big deal...and if they do end up nerfing the apple so much that it can become a common drop, than what? It's just a bad weapon then. There's already plenty of bad weapons on the site that have no use.

Let's say they did lower the level requirement to 20. What would the new stats/damage be?


It's not just this item. There are at least 2 other items that are unusable for this career as they are also level 25. And I'm not suggesting that it become a common drop as a level 20 weapon, just that if it were nerfed to be that that level, whatever the stats end up being, it'd still be ridiculous if the drop rate is "almost never".

If the method for obtaining an item is so wildly low in likelihood that the item is impossible to obtain, why add the item in the first place? This is why one of the custom item rules is "If it's too hard to get you may not be granted a copy".

We have plenty of joke items like the Unicorn Lance that STILL no one's amassed enough Chocolate Candy Corn for yet either. But at least that one is a feasible goal not contingent exclusively on being able to amass weapons to be able to kill a creature that won't even drop the item in the first place based strictly on RNG probability. You could play FV for 100 years and still never see an RNG based item, especially one listed as having a drop rate so low it shouldn't drop. At least feasibly you can get a unicorn lance within 10 years of starting on that goal, provided you never stop having that goal the entire decade.
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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11 Oct 2019, 9:21 am (Edited 11 Oct 2019, 1:59 pm)
I've never seen the problem with having joke items. I'm sure it exists because the staff enjoyed creating it. It would become a problem if they consistently put out joke items but they don't. One or two now and then seems reasonable to me and I still support it. I was really hoping to use the apple because it was a direct upgrade from my qurious blade. But it is absolutely overpowered. Without a doubt, so I'm not opposed to it just becoming another legendary item. It could remain the same teir as a qurious blade. If that were to happen it would need to be lowered to a damage that would make it more effective against heavy armor with the sunder but less than the qurious blade against light and medium armor. It could even just sunder heavy armor and be normally effective against the medium and light. Level would be dropped to 22. It's not impossible to reach 22 it requires effort and focus on a single warrior but I think that's reasonable for an item considered to be top tier. Personally I'd say leave it as a super legendary rare drop from harbinger and have it be level 24 the highest achievable level.
37y2b2f.gifFor all things warrior related Check out Dueling Club!37y2b2f.gif
11 Oct 2019, 5:44 pm
noiro18 There really isn't anything wrong with items that are joke items. When they aren't hyped to be something neat for people to use.

The Apple would be over powered if it was even usable at all, which it currently isn't.

Your nerfing suggestions are really great. But even then the smallest nerf you're suggesting is simply "Let us be able to use this item". Level 24 being achievable versus level 25 being unreachable by design is the entire point of why this thread exists.
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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11 Oct 2019, 6:12 pm
I don't want to interrupt discussion but I do want to quickly clarify what the original stat array represents - if you consider most weapons to be around "tier 5", with a few pieces pushing tier 6, this apple is intended to be a tier 7 weapon.

This was relevant when I was messing about with tier 6 battlegrounds (as some of you might've recalled from the test battleground that was briefly available) - however, at this rate, the apple isn't likely to be "balanced" in a fair way for years at this stage, so I figured having it accessible as a collectible would do it more justice than it sitting inactive in the database to be forgotten about.

The intention being that the level requirement on the item would eventually be dropped when it was a "fair" item. I'm not saying this is sound thinking on my part, just my thought process when I made it available.

At any-rate, if it's likely to be a continued issue, I can simply set it to something along the lines of:

Req lv15.
Damage 200 - 270 (Physical), 90 - 140 (Fire) +20 Medium, +60 Heavy.
Sunder effect removed.
Burning chance increased.
Drop chance drastically increased.
+2 AGI / 1 STR / 1 INT / 2 END.

As for Ana's Sorrow, I'm fairly confident the level requirement on that can simply be dropped now; it had the potential to combo for 2,500 pure damage, which, at its inception, was well in excess of what most warriors had in terms of health; I'm happy to drop the level requirement on this item without any changes at this stage.

As for the Crown of Battle? I... honestly don't know what was going on there. I'm thinking it's worth dropping the level requirement on that down to 10, and the level requirement on Ana's Sorrow to 20.
12 Oct 2019, 12:26 am
Admin-Wisteria I support all those change ideas. I think the furvilla world isn't ready for teir 7.
37y2b2f.gifFor all things warrior related Check out Dueling Club!37y2b2f.gif
12 Oct 2019, 5:03 am
I don't want to interrupt discussion but I do want to quickly clarify what the original stat array represents - if you consider most weapons to be around "tier 5", with a few pieces pushing tier 6, this apple is intended to be a tier 7 weapon.

This was relevant when I was messing about with tier 6 battlegrounds (as some of you might've recalled from the test battleground that was briefly available) - however, at this rate, the apple isn't likely to be "balanced" in a fair way for years at this stage, so I figured having it accessible as a collectible would do it more justice than it sitting inactive in the database to be forgotten about.

The intention being that the level requirement on the item would eventually be dropped when it was a "fair" item. I'm not saying this is sound thinking on my part, just my thought process when I made it available.

At any-rate, if it's likely to be a continued issue, I can simply set it to something along the lines of:

Req lv15.
Damage 200 - 270 (Physical), 90 - 140 (Fire) +20 Medium, +60 Heavy.
Sunder effect removed.
Burning chance increased.
Drop chance drastically increased.
+2 AGI / 1 STR / 1 INT / 2 END.

As for Ana's Sorrow, I'm fairly confident the level requirement on that can simply be dropped now; it had the potential to combo for 2,500 pure damage, which, at its inception, was well in excess of what most warriors had in terms of health; I'm happy to drop the level requirement on this item without any changes at this stage.

As for the Crown of Battle? I... honestly don't know what was going on there. I'm thinking it's worth dropping the level requirement on that down to 10, and the level requirement on Ana's Sorrow to 20.


Thank you so much for listening. If Noiro approves of the changes then it's probably great.
Ultimately the problem with adding things in and "having it accessible as a collectible... ...than it sitting inactive in the database to be forgotten about." doesn't really help as you had already done so with Ana's Sorrow and forgotten about it.
There's other items that have been in the database that aren't inactive that also have a similar problem to this, but that's for a different thread.

I don't want you to misunderstand. I really appreciate all the work that you put into the site!
I just sometimes I think you're thinking decades in advance when the site isn't stable or large enough for that yet. You JUST put into effect some items that will shove 'tier 5' items into 'tier 6' realms (making it possible to get to 200% quality on weapons) as well as added in 2 new elements

With the two new elements alone you're going to have a lot to balance out so that they fit in with the pre-existing 6? (light, dark, fire, ice, earth, lightning) elements and aren't too over or too under powered.

I don't want you getting burnt out over trying to make everything fit and adding in higher and higher tiers of things
Former AnonFairy Existentialism (I was until people started making and releasing villagers with bad CSS... Ruin my fun why don't ya'll)
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12 Oct 2019, 12:36 pm

I just sometimes I think you're thinking decades in advance when the site isn't stable or large enough for that yet. You JUST put into effect some items that will shove 'tier 5' items into 'tier 6' realms (making it possible to get to 200% quality on weapons) as well as added in 2 new elements


Very much this. There are still so very many players who are slowly working their way up, and only a certain group that is at this level currently.