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Valour Points

6 Nov 2017, 11:40 pm
Hi all! This thread is a place to discuss Valour Points, and their current functionality before we look at fixing the tournament.

Basically, what I'm considering:

- PvP will no longer award any valour points; it'll still be available, but is mostly used for fun when players want.
- You'll be able to earn valour points for defeating regular enemies, to a maximum point amount every 2 weeks.
- You'll be able to spend these valour points on rare reagents primarily, as a means to help mitigate against bad luck.

Then, at a later date:

- A PvP banlist is implemented; you cannot queue for PvP if your warrior is equipped with certain items.
- PvP weekends will take place with rewards based on placing for that weekend; the rewards won't be exclusive.

Let me know what you think of these changes below!


6 Nov 2017, 11:44 pm
so the tourney, but minus the requirement to spend 5 hours looking for someone to duel 10x with? i'm down with that.

(honestly as long as they -actually reset- i dont really care what happens at this point.)
6 Nov 2017, 11:50 pm
I have no opinions on PvP, but I would love to see harder battleground enemies reward more valor points. I think killing an Ancient Pyre should be worth more than a Lesser Thornpion. Possibly make grounds that cost multiple charges reward charges x2 valor points.

Anything that mitigates bad luck is great to me. Ways to get the seemingly impossible to get items like anodized aluminum lumps would be very welcome.
7 Nov 2017, 12:19 am
I would LOVE PVP weekends! I would say perhaps not every weekend, but instead every other, maybe? Like, every two weeks when the VP tables turn over and you start again. This way it doesn't get boring quite as quickly as it has by hoping and praying someone else is dueling, or begging your friends to battle you for 2k VP.

I see what chowchow is saying about more VP, but part of me worries this will continue to grow the gap between high and low level players if higher level players get 6VP for every 2VP that a lower level player gets. While I see where it can be a pretty basic "harder = more rewards!", but with weaponry and SR materials being on the stake for this, I think it would just give yet another steep advantage to stronger players. This is also coming from someone with multiple high-level warriors, so it's not coming from someone salty over it, either.

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7 Nov 2017, 12:23 am (Edited 7 Nov 2017, 12:28 am)
I actually like these changes! Anything to mitigate bad luck is always good. I also like StrayChowChow's mention of having battle areas award appropriate VP for enemies. I've been wanting to grind for a while now in some of the battle areas that require two points to go into but since I still only get 2 VP per battle and thus 20 VP in 10 rounds where as the lower 1 point to enter venues give me 40 VP per 20 rounds that is very unbalanced. Perhaps 2VP per each point required to enter an area. That way the higher level areas give out a normal amount of VP and not punish a person for going into a higher level area.

I've always hated the PVP especially since if you did not have some of the special warrior event drops you were unable to compete and it became depressing to me to just go into battle after battle only to get smashed out in one or two hits. So i actually like the idea of a ban list. That way everyone even the most beginning player is equally matched. The current system fails at that so very much.

Goji I think what ChowChow means is that when you enter a battle area that requires two charges to enter and you get 2 vp per battle instead you would pay the 2 charges and get 4vp per battle. if you follow that simple equation of 2vp per charge point required to enter a person should not be getting any 'extra points. For instance lower level areas give 2vp per battle with a max of 20 battles (no elixers) if you step up into the higher grounds which are still 2vp per battle with a max of 10 battles that only means you get 20 vp and not the 40 you'd get in lower levels. If the higher venue gives out 4vp per battle and with 10 battles then it gives out the exact same VP as the lower levels.. At least that's what I'm thinking ChowChow is talking about.
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7 Nov 2017, 12:24 am
Yes please this.
Also please re consider some nerfs that were done for PvP then please! I went from being super invested to not so much when things that were SOhard to get were nerfed for something I hated, sometimes RIGHT after I'd gotten it...
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7 Nov 2017, 12:30 am (Edited 7 Nov 2017, 12:31 am)
...maybe as a thing in between StrayChowChow 's and Goji 's suggestion, the points could be weighted based on the warrior's level vs. the level of the area? So you always get the most points for being in the zones the same level or higher than your warrior, and fewer for being in a zone lower-leveled than you- a newbie isn't punished, and a vet deciding to just whack around the low-level mons for a while doesn't get an advantage.
7 Nov 2017, 12:35 am
I think what ChowChow means is that when you enter a battle area that requires two charges to enter and you get 2 vp per battle instead you would pay the 2 charges and get 4vp per battle. if you follow that simple equation of 2vp per charge point required to enter a person should not be getting any 'extra points. For instance lower level areas give 2vp per battle with a max of 20 battles (no elixers) if you step up into the higher grounds which are still 2vp per battle with a max of 10 battles that only means you get 20 vp and not the 40 you'd get in lower levels. If the higher venue gives out 4vp per battle and with 10 battles then it gives out the exact same VP as the lower levels.. At least that's what I'm thinking ChowChow is talking about.

This is exactly what I meant, yeah! Thank you for clarifying it for me OwO
7 Nov 2017, 12:37 am
I would just like to see valor points scale based on the charges to enter a battleground. If you get 2 points for defeating an enemy in a battleground that costs 1 charge to enter, then you should get 4 points per enemy if the battleground costs 2 charges to enter, and so on. You have limited charges so right now fighting in anything but the lowest 1 charge battlegrounds actively punishes you by reducing your valor points per hour, and that seems counter-intuitive.
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7 Nov 2017, 12:39 am
StrayChowChow Your welcome!
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7 Nov 2017, 12:41 am (Edited 7 Nov 2017, 12:44 am)
- A PvP banlist is implemented; you cannot queue for PvP if your warrior is equipped with certain items.


Very much this over all. I'd love to see some items become PVE only, and maybe even get buffed some because of this. I think it'd also maybe be fun to have some kind of second PVP or something where the ban list doesn't go in effect, just so people can show off their broken/powerful PVE builds. You'd know what you were getting into, so I think it could be fun~

Over all though, very much happy to read all of this. While I'd love to see some equipment go through the shop, getting some of the rarer materials would be fantastic. Maybe for some crazy prices we could also see those pesky feathers and other staff making materials? Even if they end up being 3k points each, I'd be thrilled to see more of them getting into circulation.

A bit sad to see the PVP points go away, but would the prizes still be there? ((Aka, if your rank is above X, you win Y points at the end of the 2 weeks)). I'm wondering this as if it's removed, than the only reason to do PVP becomes to test out builds against random people and friends, or trying to get in the top 3 for the golden lances.

Also think the PVP weekends with rewards could be a lot of fun too. Does put a bit of pressure on people to make sure they're online if they want something, but I do feel it's a step in the right direction regardless.

Another food for thought; maybe along with PVE only equipment, there could be some PVP only stuff? The ban list will probably fix the equipment builds problem by itself, but maybe it'd also be fun to see some better balanced cloned equipment that's similar to the PVE stuff. For instance, Have Arons folly go back to it's old self for PVP only. Then in PVP, make it a bit more like the cheshire staff; doing a chunk of pure, plus a boat load of fire damage. So you're doing fire damage to both players, and the staff itself gives a negative fire resistance and no actual stats bonus.... To be fair, I'm a lot a bit tired, and it's probably a very dumb idea... I just like getting new warrior equipment to play with and test out xD
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7 Nov 2017, 1:07 am
Goji

From what I can see PvE points are capped. The only thing a harder=more rewards does is allow players who fight harder things to max out their points quicker.

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PvP is not one of my favorite parts of this site so having it be a social thing is nice. I appreciate the ban list a lot (I'm guessing this won't be for a year or longer). Limiting PvP to smaller time slots seems helpful against the endless queue--knowing it's only for a few hours will help concentrate the number of participants.

Rare reagents would be nice. Light Mythic Tablets, please? I'm kinda curious as to where the point costs will end up. Currently we're limited to 1 reagent a month (points don't reset so once you've maxed it's only the 1k participation you're getting). When the Tourney shop opened it was conceivable to purchase up to 5 reagents if you maxed out both PvE and PvP.

5 reagents monthly is enough to make an elemental wand every 6 months.
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7 Nov 2017, 2:15 am
You know, I typed a long 1 hour rant but I'll instead give a short and simple version for others sake.

I'm only okay with a ban list if physical users are put on even footing with magic users finally. Without needing event items on eithers side. I'm so tired of magic magic and more magic. I want to enjoy using gosh hecking physical. I have to have op event equips to even stand against magic, non event GOOD physical items are...rather lacking vs magic related items.

Surly I can't be the ONLY one who sees magic is way advantaged over physical. Even without event items it is. PVP is already 99% magic dominated, let's not make it 100%.

Besides that rant I have no others issues. *shrug*
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7 Nov 2017, 3:16 am
I would just like to see valor points scale based on the charges to enter a battleground. If you get 2 points for defeating an enemy in a battleground that costs 1 charge to enter, then you should get 4 points per enemy if the battleground costs 2 charges to enter, and so on. You have limited charges so right now fighting in anything but the lowest 1 charge battlegrounds actively punishes you by reducing your valor points per hour, and that seems counter-intuitive.


What if loot cave tho, that cost 10 charges per battle
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7 Nov 2017, 3:36 am (Edited 7 Nov 2017, 3:38 am)
I would just like to see valor points scale based on the charges to enter a battleground. If you get 2 points for defeating an enemy in a battleground that costs 1 charge to enter, then you should get 4 points per enemy if the battleground costs 2 charges to enter, and so on. You have limited charges so right now fighting in anything but the lowest 1 charge battlegrounds actively punishes you by reducing your valor points per hour, and that seems counter-intuitive.


What if loot cave tho, that cost 10 charges per battle

fair, but like Zephyros says above (and like the loot cave itself, honestly) you're balancing efficiency vs reward. you have a maximum amount of points you can't go over, and (depending where you usually battle) get the spoils of maybe 3-6 regular battles for the 20 charges. you'd just hit the cap faster and just not gain any more the rest of the period. you still have to wait the same amount of time for charges to rebuild too before going again.

now i think about it, it's actually a really good way to make it fair for new/low level players. and even for regular high levelers with work and busy schedules to participate well even with how little time they can spare! :o
7 Nov 2017, 4:18 am
You know, I typed a long 1 hour rant but I'll instead give a short and simple version for others sake.

I'm only okay with a ban list if physical users are put on even footing with magic users finally. Without needing event items on eithers side. I'm so tired of magic magic and more magic. I want to enjoy using gosh hecking physical. I have to have op event equips to even stand against magic, non event GOOD physical items are...rather lacking vs magic related items.

Surly I can't be the ONLY one who sees magic is way advantaged over physical. Even without event items it is. PVP is already 99% magic dominated, let's not make it 100%.

Besides that rant I have no others issues. *shrug*


This, just so much this... As another physical warrior I feel the pain of the almost purely magical dominated PvP. :/
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7 Nov 2017, 6:19 am
personaly it sounds like a major step in the right dirrection, just alone for eliminating pvp, shouldn't have to pvp if you don't want to.
7 Nov 2017, 7:35 am
Yes, need, very much want!
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7 Nov 2017, 7:49 am
I really love the idea of PvP weekends. And people PvPing mainly for fun will mean that I'll get matches with people who want a battle and aren't just passing each turn to get their points (not that I blame them for doing that, PvP isn't for everyone). I hope the Golden Lance will still be available to people who want it though.

I'm not sure how I feel about a banlist, some stuff is really OP and I can see why a banlist would be needed but it'd suck to spend a long time getting crystals and whatnot to make a special build and then you end up not able to use some of it. Also some people's opinions about what is OP is probably different to other people's opinions so it might end up feeling unfair.

But yeah overall I'm excited about the changes ^-^
7 Nov 2017, 10:12 am
I'm down with this idea! Seems great to me, though I'd like it if the shops kept on stocking weapons and things instead of just reagants- I have a SUPER hard time getting past deadly monsters with physical attacks, and so most of the really good stuff (or magic stuff) just doesn't drop.
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7 Nov 2017, 10:19 am
You could probably respark interest without huge changes just by resetting ELO and cycling in the puck amulets like fireform and the drained amulet (or was it depleted I forgot). Make an announcement in the change log when it happens so people who forgot about the tourney come back.

Overall, I'm a fan of minor readjustments versus sweeping rehauls.
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7 Nov 2017, 10:37 am
You know, I typed a long 1 hour rant but I'll instead give a short and simple version for others sake.

I'm only okay with a ban list if physical users are put on even footing with magic users finally. Without needing event items on eithers side. I'm so tired of magic magic and more magic. I want to enjoy using gosh hecking physical. I have to have op event equips to even stand against magic, non event GOOD physical items are...rather lacking vs magic related items.

Surly I can't be the ONLY one who sees magic is way advantaged over physical. Even without event items it is. PVP is already 99% magic dominated, let's not make it 100%.

Besides that rant I have no others issues. *shrug*


You're not the only one, I also 100% agree with this too. I'm also mostly a Physical user on both my warriors too and I see this issue a lot in PVP. :<
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7 Nov 2017, 10:41 am
I honestly agree with all of this.
7 Nov 2017, 10:44 am
I would just love to see more prizes to spend out points on-- with maybe certain enemies dropping more valour points then others, specifically harder or/and more high leveled monsters.
7 Nov 2017, 11:04 am (Edited 7 Nov 2017, 11:04 am)
Ideally Valor Point gain would be roughly proportional to the number of charges spent in a battleground, otherwise the optimal way to farm for rare reagents might become to grind easy one-charge battlegrounds until you have the VP for it.

PVP weekends sound like a great idea to keep interest higher and queue times down.

I've said it before and I'm still pretty iffy on a PVP banlist, mainly because it's intelligence-stacking and particular combinations of items that prove problematic more often than individual items. If Item A and Item B are both fine in lots of builds on their own but have a ridiculously powerful synergy, how do you decide which one gets banned out?

There also needs to be a way to clearly communicate what items are PVE-exclusive without needing to dig for a list in the forums somewhere. Personally I'd like to see diminishing returns on stat-stacking before going to a banlist.
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